Phasing Grace - Latest Comments in Second Life Killer Apps and Weak Ties

Re: Second Life Killer Apps and Weak Ties

Ener Hax — Sun, 31 May 2009 21:23:44 -0000

extremely well written post. Mark has the credentials but he lacks the sheer passion of Philip. that's to be expected, but it seems that this subtle diff is felt isl, imo

"killer app" is such a "means nothing" term in the way Mark uses it. great buzzword, but just a buzzword

for me, the killer app of second life is the collaborative creativity that i love

you are right that some things need to be addressed such as total number of avs and a fundamental aspect of sl is that you are an island

as such, it's hard to stumble onto new relevant places. search is pretty useless, with a dependence on finding places that interest me via the "old fashioned" web

kinda not very killer app in that i have to google to find neat places isl

my background isl: own 12 sims

Re: Second Life Killer Apps and Weak Ties

cloudseer — Sun, 31 May 2009 11:57:33 -0000

I've been dancing about excitedly for the last ten minutes after reading this blog post and comments. :D It echos exactly what our team have been talking about for the last months, with regards to music and the challange with the existing infrastructure.

I'm so glad to see everybody is trying to move things on. Last week we launched a sim aimed to solve this very problem.
I hope ClubHub in the short term can help with getting all music related links together. I tbelieve there is so much potential for the music community in particular to grow if it's easier to get he word out.

Re: Second Life Killer Apps and Weak Ties

metaMeerKat — Sat, 30 May 2009 02:52:16 -0000

I find it encouraging that M Linden responded to this entry, and leaves a footprint on other blogs. The thoughts and insights of users in Second Life could shape the future as much (and more) than creative prims itself. Recognising this and listening to thought-leaders is really central and gives much hope...

Re: Second Life Killer Apps and Weak Ties

Airt Pexington — Fri, 29 May 2009 03:43:48 -0000

Is it the meetings that Cory misses the most or the meetup itself? I think its the latter.

I agree with Grace. It is the weak tie (the meetup) that binds us to our world. Its a bit like gravity in lots of ways.

Re: Second Life Killer Apps and Weak Ties

Blue Linden — Thu, 28 May 2009 19:37:25 -0000

Excellent points about the power of weak ties and how SL needs to better enable them.

I don't mean to detract from this valid observation in any way, but would like to add to the discussion on SL's potential as a "killer" meeting environment by further referencing Cory's interview at the McArthur event.

The first question he was asked (and I am paraphrasing) was "What do you miss most about working at the Lab".

His response was "Inworld meetings".

Re: Second Life Killer Apps and Weak Ties

Crap Mariner — Thu, 28 May 2009 14:40:16 -0000

@ M - Ever since you mentioned that y'all wouldn't be making major changes in 2009 but live music was an important use-case to be worked on early next year, I've been passing that quote from metanomics around to get folks thinking about what they'd want to see, what changes they'd want made, and how best to address shortcomings and amplify strengths.

Currently in gathering phase. When I'm done scouring the blogs, forums, and jiras, I'll be going down my friends list asking folks directly. Then, it'll be time to make sense of all the responses.

Hopefully it'll be something y'all find useful.

-ls/cm

Re: Second Life Killer Apps and Weak Ties

Chance — Thu, 28 May 2009 14:13:10 -0000

What.

Re: Second Life Killer Apps and Weak Ties

M Linden — Wed, 27 May 2009 20:42:12 -0000

@ Grace -- M here. Thank you for the thoughtful analysis of my killer app comments. I can now say I've been "parsed." :)

Second Life is a platform and as part of that platform, we need to create richer tools to enable the formation of powerful ties...social tools, if you will...so that the community can flourish in ways we cannot imagine today.

That aspect of the Second Life platform is admittedly weak. Blaringly so. I get it. We have tools for building which is inherently collaborative and tools for commerce which connect Residents at a 1:1 level but we lack tools that enable you to find and connect with the people, places and things that make Second Life the magical experience it is today.

While I haven't spent as much time discussing platform-related tools like the ones you mention, those are on our roadmap as are many other platform-related improvements (e.g., Mesh imports). Please stay tuned. You'll be hearing more as we share our roadmaps and our progress delivering on them.

Putting this in a larger context, we are in the midst of a massive renovation top-to-bottom. One by one we are knocking off the impediments you encounter everyday in Second Life. Our first focus was on platform stability. We've made measurable progress there, but there is still much to be done. I hope you've noticed what we've accomplished thus far.

As an aside, when I talk about Killer Apps I am talking about some of the compelling experiences that can and should be built on top of the Second Life platform -- just as the iphone ships with a core set of apps to prime the pump, so to speak. But you've parsed me so thoroughly I will have to remove that term from my vocabulary! o.O

@ Crap, please do send along the list of to-dos you are collecting. It will be 2010 before you see progress on them but feeding them in now would be most useful. I am sure I will be saucer-eyed. Would you expect anything less?

Thanks for a provocative thread. Best, M.

Re: Second Life Killer Apps and Weak Ties

Myx Smythe — Mon, 25 May 2009 10:24:06 -0000

As a DJ in SL I totally agree with you Grace - I've met so many good people and keep in touch with them here, but LL are simply not helping. The groups limit is a joke, the events system is pathetic - you can't even do repeat events - I do five sets a week and entering all of those into the events system is a nightmare, I've almost given up.

I totally agree with Prokofy about M, he's not provided any clear direction for LL, and that's beginning to show in the scattergun approach that's being taken towards quite significant issues within SL such as Age Verification and Traffic Bots; while such efforts may be well-meaning, the manner in which they have been expedited has only alienated LL even more from the customers.

In a group chat the other day I suggested a User Parliament or Council, an elected group of SL residents who could bridge this growing divide between LL and their residents - I was surprised at the positive responses I got to what was, at the time, quite an off the cuff suggestion.

The more I think about it, and see that other MMOs like EvE have actually implemented it, the more I think this could be a way to re-focus SL back on the creativity of it's residents, and the tools to allow us to achieve that, and in those terms, that might be a "killer app".

After the initial reaction in my group chat, I'd be interested to see what others think.

Re: Second Life Killer Apps and Weak Ties

Troy McConaghy — Sat, 23 May 2009 12:27:11 -0000

Many SL communities use other tools (besides SL) to manage their group communications. Examples include Google Groups, Google Calendar, Facebook groups, Ning groups, Meetup.com, mailman (to manage mailing list like the SLED mailing list), IRC chatrooms, and more. There are also scripts like Subscribe-O-Matic to send group notices to people without forcing them to use up one of their 25 SL groups.

My point is that SL doesn't need to have ultra-powerful group communications tools for SL groups to communicate effectively today. I'd certainly welcome them though.

For example, today when the SciLands Senate (an SL group) gets a new senator, we have to invite them to both the SL group and the Google group. We'd rather only have one group, but both are required --- the SL group for things like managing land, and the Google group for reliable asynchronous communications, storing meeting minutes, and so on.

I'd love for Linden Lab to spend time adding functionality like Google Groups to SL groups. That would mostly mean web-based tools to manage a mailing list, plus a place to store group files. It would definitely make life a *lot* easier.

Re: Second Life Killer Apps and Weak Ties

Prokofy — Sat, 23 May 2009 01:17:39 -0000

M Linden always sounds like someone trying to convince himself more than anybody else when he talks with such boyish enthusiasm about "killer apps". All Lindens, from Philip on down, sound like they are evangelizing above all to recruit themselves to an idea they are shakey on.

Your idea is interesting. I think of it another way. I think of it like this. There are a lot of people in life that you will not be close to, in fact, that you may hate, in fact, that you may have nothing to do with. And yet, you have to deal with them, sometimes work with them, negotiate with them, etc. So SL creates a kind of safer substrate for all those mandatory relationships that aren't close -- let's call them remote relationships -- that you have to navigate. It's a way for people who really have no reason to be together to find some channel they can dial into where they can communicate on some facet of something, or whether they can safely in fact argue or clash -- it's a managed clash of civilizations, and that's a good thing.

I think why people get frustrated is when they want the intensity of the few very close relationships to define the entire project for them, and it never can, because most people, you will not like -- and with good reason, as they are asshats, on the Internet, behaving badly. But, SL is the matrix where you can deal with them in pleasant surroundings with fun things to do -- and always find the mute button if need be.

Re: Second Life Killer Apps and Weak Ties

Gwyneth Llewelyn — Fri, 22 May 2009 21:39:31 -0000

So much insight, Grace! LL should hire you to tell them what Second Life is good for...

I'm definitely intrigued by your application of "weak ties" to Second Life. As a matter of fact, perhaps the huge interest is how people gravitate to the three-dimensional environment which serves as the "background" for forging new ties, e.g. you jump over to a live performance because of the environment, but you re-forge old links and establish new ones.

Interestingly, that might explain the appeal of Facebook's so many groups and applets (although I have to seriously admit I find them childish — knowing fully well that die-hard Facebookers say exactly the same about SL!) — they're just the background for people to join "something in common". If you're right, though, any social network tool that creates "pretexts" for weak ties to spontaneously form should have a crucial advantage over the competition: e.g. in that sense, Facebook would be far superior to Twitter, for instance. 3D virtual worlds, however, would be at the top of the pyramid...

I guess that for some unfathomable reason, LL never really cared much about "people connecting", since they traditionally are fond of "people creating" :) Thus the impossible limits put on chat, group chat, groups...

Re: Second Life Killer Apps and Weak Ties

IYan Writer — Wed, 20 May 2009 10:08:18 -0000

All very true. I also think that M doesn't *get* SL - hence the desperate maneuvers to turn it into a product that does a service X that provides value Z.

Instead, SL should be recognized as a platform - and they should work on fixing that platform.

Re: Second Life Killer Apps and Weak Ties

Mo Hax — Tue, 19 May 2009 22:42:05 -0000

Grace thanks for putting into words the idea behind 'serendipitous meetups' and that thing I just could not put my finger on. It really is about 'weak ties', which are completely underestimated by so many. What others criticize as the downside of virtual social relationships is actual one of its greatest strengths. Being able to make casual acquaintances, even largely before you speak to them simply by reading their profiles in a meeting, at a live music event, playing an in-world game, or just building in a sandbox allow us to meet many more people that would be realistic in any other physical world situation. This exposure to so many different people and ideas improves the chances of making that initial 'weak ties' with people of particular interest that are likely to develop beyond that to 'strong ties' of friendship, romance, or business.

By the way, this is the very reason any walled-garden virtual space will never offer as much benefit as the vast community of Second Life residents, although in big organizations it may have the same effect across regional and department boundaries as it so greatly has for me at work and beyond.

Every time I head Mark talk about 'meetings' being the killer app I cringe. Meetings can be defined in so many different ways. Most business people that I know when they hear that interpret such meetings to include company internal information that they would rather NOT have happening in Second Life. It is the customer facing meetings, and the company meetings that contain no company internal information, the ones focused on forging 'weak ties' that might lead to other internal conversations and development, the fun meetings that Second Life is so good at. Second Life, not unlike a Museam of Art, Disney Land, Tahoe, or any other great place to forge stronger team relationships, is best at bringing people together the personal and professional stuff that happens later directly results from that first 'weak tie' forged in place that, yes, is fun above everything else.

Re: Second Life Killer Apps and Weak Ties

Crap Mariner — Tue, 19 May 2009 18:50:36 -0000

Looking back at the lip-service that live music was given in 2007 and 2008 SLCC without any appreciable fundamental changes benefiting live music, I blew up big time on my site, but a friend requested that I hold my fire, spike the post for a bit, and see...

Pretty much jack squat. In fact, with Sidewinder's departure, steps backwards.

I noticed his comments on live music in the interview as well as the follow-up QAs, and this time around M has upped the expectations.

Or, some think, changed the smoke he's blowing up people's asses from a simple cedar wood to a fine hickory-maple mix.

Either way, 2010 is when some mystery workgroup is tasked with figuring out what changes can help and how to get them going as a use-case/killer-ap.

The seventh panel that KatyDid has on the boards for SLCC 2009 is one to address pretty much all M is opening the door for in that Metanomics appearance and hand him a list of the things that could make a difference.

I've been scouring the forums and blogs, asking people and pulling as much from archives as I can to make a pile of requests, demands, plans, and pleas people have had over the years.

And I've barely scratched the surface. I have a lot more to dig through.

But this is what I do, compulsively scan and scour and collect and analyze and model and ponder and then see who likes what and who hates what.

Crowdsourcing. Or, if you like other words that start with C, "community." Or Constructive Cacophony.

He's opened the door, now it's time to make sure he doesn't go all saucer-eyed at the horde that's gotten organized and is coming through it.

-ls/cm

Re: Second Life Killer Apps and Weak Ties

Rightasrain — Tue, 19 May 2009 18:32:49 -0000

gee...I thought the killer app was Second Life? It's hard to keep up with Mitch Kapor really %)

Re: Second Life Killer Apps and Weak Ties

Poinky — Tue, 19 May 2009 14:28:12 -0000

It's interesting that there are plenty of tools for managing groups and communities on the web that SL residents could (and to some extent, do) use. However, close integration with the client seems to be necessary to achieve wide adoption.
The other issue for me is that group notifications and notecards exist in a space separate from the virtual world. Why are notecards shown in separate client windows, rather than 3d pages in my avatar's hand? Why don't group notifications arrive in the form of carrier pigeons, or as messenger NPCs? (ok, I know the answer to that one - because there'd be an army of Metanomics messengers following me around everywhere :-) ).
Many people do provide with group management alternatives, and in-world event management systems, but none of them have taken off in a meaningful way. Is it because people don't know about them, or they don't work well enough, or something else?